Tyler Cloutier: Confessions of a Professional Middler
Clue T Eh shares lessons learned from almost a decade in the domestic cyclocross midfield
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Cycling journalism and race reporting is such that you are often reporting on the fronts of races. However, there are results and stories well past the podium and the wide-angle podium that are important to the narrative of the domestic cyclocross season.
We have come to call this part of the field the “midfield” and the riders who habitat the midfield “middlers.” The arguable king of the middlers on the domestic scene for the past seven or eight years has been Tyler Cloutier.
Similar to many top riders at the local level, once Cloutier conquered his local scene, he set his sights on what he could do at the national UCI level. Cloutier was able to parlay a flexible work arrangement and some support from sponsors into trips on the road each weekend to race at the UCI level.
I ran into Tyler at Nationals and suggested we do a fun, lighthearted retirement interview. We did that, but I think the end product was much much more, as we covered every corner of the midfield in American cyclocross. We made it through our time allotment for a free Zoom call and then well into a backup phone conversation in what I thought was a pretty interesting conversation.
Interview: Tyler Cloutier on the Cyclocross Midfield
Zach Schuster: We talked at Nats and I was like, We should do an interview because you're kind of the people's champ for so many years and kind of leaving the sport. Was there an official T Clue T Eh farewell tour last year?
Tyler Cloutier: I don't know how official it was. I think it just kind of depended on if people read my Instagram posts about it. But I feel like it was. For people following along or people paying attention, they kind of kind of knew what was up and got a lot of questions about it.
But I didn't make a lot of fanfare of like, this will be my last go at ‘cross. This will be my last Rochester or anything like that.
Zach Schuster: Was there was there a film crew? Are we going to get like a Last Dance documentary in a couple of years?
Tyler Cloutier: That would be great. There are several things that I took offense to throughout my career that we could go back on, but I don't know that I'd ever put myself in the same conversation as Jordan by any means.
I was looking at my budget over the last couple of years. I was just like, cleaning up some old files and came across it and I think I don't think I had that cash flow to devote towards a a film crew or a documentary crew by any means.
If Sven wants to share his docu-series crew that he put together for his last ride, then we could put something together. I'll come out of retirement for that. Just for the content.
Zach Schuster: That was almost serendipitous how you did this. I mean, we were talking about the Last Dance, and I feel like the enduring thing from that documentary besides Shruggie guy is Michael Jordan taking things personally.
So let's just dive right into things that you took umbrage with. You brought it up, my guy.
Tyler Cloutier: Yeah, I did bring it up. I don't know that I have anything specific. And I feel like the one thing I think I always probably took with me, and it's something that I'm like trying to sort out, I think every athlete to some degree has an ego, right? For a while it was kind of based in cyclocross and being a mediocre Middler, as it were. I had to borrow the Bulletin term.
One thing that I always personally struggled with was the whole sponsorship battle.
I had a job the whole time I was racing in the field. I never felt financially stable enough to stop working a full-time job and commit to racing, which was my personal choice. I don’t have any regrets about that, but the sponsorship thing was something I always took umbrage to.
It was like, Hey, I’ve got these results and they would say, “Oh, we need more than results. And it’s like, Okay, cool, I also have this following. “Well no, we kind of need more than that.” And so that was always something I think I still take issue with to this day. You find people that get sponsored or levels of support to go far in this particular discipline for one reason or another.
You see people who could go further with the levels of support other riders are getting. I’m fortunate to have sponsors like TNR tape and I am very thankful to be working with them. That took a big burden off during the years and years they were a sponsor of mine.
I just wish that would be extended to a lot more people than just the same five or ten people at the top.
Zach Schuster: I will say, I have made the transition to having a full-time job and a 401k, and I have no regrets. I think there’s something to be said about having a real job and not trying to grind in the bike race thing or even the bike industry space.
Tyler Cloutier: I feel like you can still be competitive, but maybe in the back of my mind, there will always be those questions. Like what if I had quit my job and dedicated myself solely to this particular craft, how far would I have been able to get?
But then at the same time, you think long-term about where are you going to be in five years? If it’s still chasing UCI points and trying to put together enough money to pay rent, there’s the other side of not having a 401k or financial stability and independence.
Zach Schuster: Bill has been saying it’s a golden time to be a Devo rider. We have so much support for young riders, but then you make that transition and it becomes really hard.
What did you, I guess, learn as someone trying to make it work? Because you had to be a guy, right? You were a guy, but you also had to be a guy to build a following. You couldn’t just be a dude in the park. And I feel like you did that despite not necessarily winning races.
What did you learn and what advice would you have for someone who’s like 22 who wants to make it in cyclocross?
Tyler Cloutier: I feel like the number one thing—and I obviously don’t know a ton of the younger guys—but I think what really goes far is the relationships you build with people, be that friends on the internet or people you stay with in real life. Like something as simple as sending a thank you card to a host. It doesn’t have to be elaborate, but being a nice person goes a long way.
I’d like to think I was a nice person. I definitely have a lot of friends in ‘cross, and I think one thing I will miss the most is just being around those people week in and week out. In terms of building a following, I think it was just making friends along the way and then having friends who help you meet other people.
Of course, it helped to talk to people who have podcasts and different social media outlets and they bring you on. That brings you a slightly bigger following. Then you have friends who walk around with GoPros every hour of the day who splice you into videos for comedic relief or to make you look stupid or something like that. And it just kind of goes from there.
My advice for young kids coming up is don’t forget to build relationships, especially in ‘cross or the bike industry as a whole or whatever professional venture. What’s going to take you far in the bike industry or professionally outside of bikes is getting to know people and not being a total dickhead along the way.
Zach Schuster: You talk about social, which I think is a big part of why you are successful. I remember hearing you on a podcast and being like, “Well I guess this guy is a friend of the Wide Angle Podium, I guess I need to get to know him.”
Did you have a strategy for using social effectively? Does that stem from your personality? Are you generally just a friendly guy or did you approach it as part of building your brand?
Personally, I felt like you were someone we could trust as media folks. That you would always provide good content.
Tyler Cloutier: Thanks for that. It’s nice to hear, for sure.
I think first and foremost, being a fan of the sport, I consumed a lot of media. I consumed articles when you were at Cyclocross Magazine and podcasts about ‘cross and really any content about ‘cross. I was just so stoked on bike racing and cyclocross in particular. And over time, I became invested in making this something I wanted to pursue mastery in.
You just get more involved in the sport and you start to care about the outcomes and the people that are in it and how the sport is portrayed and how you can make it better.
I don’t think I really had a strategy. Going back to the sponsorship side of things, I think my personal funding of most of my career with some support from sponsors along the way probably shows I didn’t really think too much about strategy, otherwise maybe I would have but more effort into supporting myself financially.
I think it was mostly caring about the sport and paying attention to what was happening. Like from the first time I found out about Behind the Barriers, which was maybe in the fall before Worlds in 2012, I was just so hooked on it. Since then, it was a constant involvement of consuming media and caring about the sport by watching races and whatever.
Then I was just getting to know people along the way. I was grateful Bill had me on the podcast. I think I said at the time, “You guys must be really hurting for content if you’re bringing me on.”
But yeah, the relationships you build with people along the way from going to different events and being on the scene start to pay off. I’d like to think people started to take notice that hey, this is a guy who shows up not just for one year, but year after year after year. He’s at all the races. He’s doing okay at some of the races. And it just goes from there. You build those relationships with people and for some reason, they want to invite you on their podcast to hear what you have to say about the sport you love.
Zach Schuster: I like doing things in chronological order, and I feel like I’ve been all over the place so far in this interview, so I am struggling a bit. I’m a storyteller; I like narratives or whatever.
So you’re T Clue T Eh. I assume you’re racing somewhere locally, probably having some success as one of the big hitters in your local scene. And then you’re like, “I want to be a professional middler.” So walk me through your progression. Where did you start? What was the motivation? Give me the progression toward becoming a successful professional middler.
Tyler Cloutier: I think I found my niche. I didn’t start racing bikes until 2011. I had just finished my undergrad, and I was working in New Hampshire for AmeriCorps. I probably told this story elsewhere, but my buddy in the office was really into bikes, and I was like, Oh yeah, bikes seem like fun.
I was still trying to pursue being a professional soccer player at like a D3 level. And then that door closed because the team folded. So I was like, “Okay cool, I’ll go give this bike racing thing a shot.” At the time, I was looking for grad schools and I was getting into bikes.
I was like, “Well, let’s see which one of these has a cycling team. I like team sports, so let’s do it for bikes.” So I went to grad school at the University of Virginia and got into Collegiate racing as a grad school during my two years there. I just wanted to see how far I could take it.
That was probably 2012. I got a ‘cross bike and started to race. I think we had like two Collegiate races and I had enough points to be a Cat 3, so I qualified for Nationals. I hopped in a van with like a bunch of other people from UNC Winston-Salem and we drove straight through the night to Madison, and so that was my first Collegiate Nationals race and probably my third race of the year.
Zach Schuster: Which year? 2012 or 2013?
Tyler Cloutier: The snowpocalypse when Jonathan Page won it.
Zach Schuster: That was the first-ever ‘cross race I attended. I remember Jonathan Page winning that. I started racing in 2013, so I guess we were pretty close in terms of the number of races we had done. We’re like, similar, but you were good.
Tyler Cloutier: I just looked. Nationals was my sixth ‘cross race ever. From there, I finished grad school and moved to Texas. I kept racing ‘cross and it just kind of rolled on. I think I did the Gateway Cup and then I did Jingle Cross that year when it was still in November. And that was a disaster.
As a quick digression, I drove all the way up to that race, and the first night, Friday night, I picked what I was going to wear. I chose to wear these thin gloves, neglecting to remember the temperature would drop to like 20 degrees.
Zach Schuster: Dude, that was my first Jingle Cross too. I remember I crashed on one of those little gravel paths and shredded my leg. I didn’t realize I had shredded my base layer and leg until I got to the warming room afterward. I was like, “Oh my God, this hurts like heck.”
Tyler Cloutier: That weekend was insane. It was quite the experience. Like my hands were frozen for the first half of the race. I could barely feel my shifters and my brakes.
Zach Schuster: Sunday was definitely the snow day because that’s the day my cleats froze up and I quit the race.
Tyler Cloutier: So your cleats froze up, I went over the flyover.
My cleats were also packed up. I went to like hit the pedal with the bottom of my shoe, and my cleat was so clogged it went over the top of the pedal and into my front wheel. It like catapulted me off my bike at the bottom of the flyover. The spokes broke, and like you stuck with it, I stuck with it.
I was still stoked on ‘cross. I was having decent results locally in Texas, and we had some strong riders from Texas and Oklahoma. And really it was at Resolution that next year because we had Nationals in Austin.
Resolution was a UCI race the first year you had to qualify for Elite Nationals. I didn’t end up qualifying, but I did go down to support my friends who were racing. That next year in 2015 I really dedicated myself to traveling.
I went to KMC. I flew out to Charm City. I did a bunch of local races. I joked at the time that local racing paid for gas and groceries and the UCI stuff was just fun along the way. Then it just kind of snowballed from there. I stopped doing local racing altogether and was on the road every weekend trying to go to UCI races and get points and stuff.
Zach Schuster: I guess I am fascinated by people like you who are on the grind. 'Cross seems to suck you in, but at the same time, we're all acutely aware of how small and niche our sport is. I could see chasing it for crits. I just went to the Intelligentsia Cup and there were huge crowds that were intoxicating.
What motivated you for all those years? What drove you to do that?
Tyler Cloutier: I think every year I saw this progression. Every year I would get a little bit better, a little bit stronger, in terms of my FTP and skill on the bike. At that point, I was maybe four seasons into 'cross racing, having two seasons where I did a couple of UCI races before I fully committed. I had people around me who were like, "You have ability and you need to test yourself."
One thing I would tell people is, "You remember Napolean Dynamite and the character Uncle Rico? And there's that scene where he's like, 'If they put me in for the fourth quarter, I could have been somebody.'
I never wanted to be that person. I feel like I've come across so many people in my life who were like, "I wish I could have this, I wish I could have done that." I think that ingrained in me idea that no one is going to offer it to you, you have to go out and make it happen yourself. That was the mentality I approached my racing with. At a certain point, you can keep racing locally and be the big fish in the little pond, or you can keep going to bigger races and seeing how it goes.
It was this drive to be better but also this desire to kind of write my own story and see how I can take this. Do I grind away at doing UCI races? At that point 2016, 2017, it was like, I'd love to do a World Championships. That was still a pie-in-the-sky idea. Before that it was, it would be cool to be able to do a World Cup race.
Seeing progression every year. Then you score your first UCI point. It's a sport of the rich get richer where you have one point and you get called up and it's easier to get more points, and it just kind of goes from there.
Zach Schuster: You mentioned the pursuit of personal growth and achievement, but you also touched on the scene and how that brought you back. I feel like if the people sucked, you wouldn't have kept doing it for seven or eight years or whatever.
Tyler Cloutier: We'll call it since 2015, 2016. Being around the scene for so long, I think you see a lot of people come and go. When I started racing UCI races, the guys at the top were Tim Johnson and Ryan Trebon and Jonathan Page and JPows. They were pillars in the sport, and to just share a start line with those guys, it was like, "Oh my god, this is amazing."
Then they retired, and you had next group that was coming up. And now it's the next group. Some of the guys who are at the top now, Kerry and Tobin, those are guys who I knew their names from the U23 ranks. Being several years older than them, I was still a fan of them because I am a fan of the sport.
You see people come in for a little bit. The shortimers, the partimers. They come in for a season or a few races and they go back to the road or they go mountain biking or they fade into the mist. But then you have those people who show up year after year. There's something about 'cross that seems to attract people who are pretty easygoing. I haven't thought too deeply about what it is about 'cross that attracts these people, but everyone respects the grind and respects that if you're someone who's showing up week after week, you get to know those folks.
I found if you show a little bit of humility, that's how I was able to connect with the people I'd call my friends now. I was just asking them questions. Asking Tobin, "Tell me how you bunny hop," and having him respond, "I don't know dude, I just do it."
Zach Schuster: That's a very Tobin answer.
Tyler Cloutier: He's been doing it since he was so young. Being at my first European race and trying to pre-ride the course with Kerry, who has ridden at the Mountain Bike World Cup level, and being like, "How do I do this?" Not being so proud to think I could do it on my own. I think maybe 'cross has that sense of community because we all rely on each other in some way.
Zach Schuster: I don't know the best way to articulate this, but last year, my best story, by far in terms of feedback and engagement ... well, in terms of middle-aged dads, my best story was the Taylor Swift Midnights x Cyclocross story ... but, probably the most popular story we did last year was the one on JMoney.
I feel like characters, people like you, are the heart and soul of American cyclocross. Do you agree with that?
Tyler Cloutier: Selfishly, yes.
If I take myself out of it, I think those guys who are in the midfield on that second tier do provide some depth of character within the field. I think there are some riders at the top who are really good and really strong, but in terms of characters, they're all kind of robots. They're going to give you the same answers.
Zach Schuster: I will say, they have their moments. I mean then there are the Kerry Werners of the world. One of the great tragedies for the Media Pit is he isn't racing anymore because that dude gives great copy.
But I get what you're saying. I think you have more freedom to provide character and color in the midfield.
Tyler Cloutier: Maybe I'm looking at it from my perspective, but it's always nice to have those underdog stories of guys who are right on the cusp. Guys like the JMoneys. The Casey Hildebrandts. The guys who if they have a good call-up and have a good day, they can be in the top 10 conversation and even beat some guys who are stalwarts in that wide-angle podium area.
I think there is something to be said for having a midfield. It provides something different, and I think those are the people who you can really get behind. There are fan clubs for every European rider. For some, it's just their friends, but they walk up to all the races and they've got big head cutouts to support their local riders. It would be cool if we could get 'cross to a place where the middlers have as much fanfare around them as some of the top riders.
I think that would help elevate them as riders and open up doors for sponsorship and stuff. That's kind of what we're all angling toward; being able to support ourselves from bike racing. The more stories we can tell about those midfield guys, a rising tide floats all boats, right?
Zach Schuster: I totally agree with you. We talked about Jingle Cross we were talking about, or maybe it was the year after, was the year of the legendary Adam Craig nose wheelie. He was pretty good—he'd finish top 7 or whatever—but for us, it was like, "What's Adam Craig doing?"
I fear with the challenges of support, we are missing that.
You talked about Eric, I did a fun story back in 2017 about him Kerry and Tristan Cowie. They all knew each other from Collegiate racing, and they all had a really good season that year. You have those moments where they get exceptional results, and you're like, "That rules." It's something unique to cheer for.
I guess I really fear for the future without that. I think it's an essential part of American cyclocross.
Tyler Cloutier: I think 'cross is kind of the everyman's sport. On the last Media Pit and in your story, you were kind of talking about mountain biking being the pinnacle, and I absolutely agree with that having done UCI mountain bike races and gotten my doors blown off.
Zach Schuster: To be fair, I didn't say it is the pinnacle, just that it's the hardest. Cyclocross is the pinnacle dude. Come on now.
Tyler Cloutier: To that point, you go to mountain biking and there are some really strong athletes. I think you get people who come to 'cross who are really good on the bike but they don't have top-level ability that separates the top riders on the road and in mountain biking.
If you skim through the results page, there was a time when a Tobin, a Kerry, a Curtis, those guys were middlers too. When the top goes away, if all the middlers dip out of the sport because they didn't get the support they need or because it's too hard to make it happen, there's no one left to fill that next generation of top guys.
I'm kind of waxing poetic now.
Zach Schuster: Well. That was the point of this interview. We were going to talk about you, but we were definitely going to get meta. I think that's why you've become a Media Pit darling. And I feel like you'll always be welcome back on the Media Pit.
Tyler Cloutier: Let me know if you need a pundit.
Zach Schuster: I'm not going to lie, you're not a guy on the level of JMoney or Adam Craig, but I feel like you're definitely close. And I feel like we need more guys. I feel like you can be successful as a professional middler if you establish your thing. Whether it be doing cool tricks or making your own jersey. You were the Media Pit darling.
Do you have advice for young folks for how to make it in that regard?
Tyler Cloutier: I think to make it as a professional middler, and this is forefront on my mind because I was listening to the last Media Pit with Three Things You'll Probably hate, Bill and I have had similar conversations. We have this whole thing of chasing UCI points, but it would be great if guys who are middlers could actually make some money or get some support. I think the idea Bill threw out, was we'll have some UCI races, but everything else has the same prize money, but no UCI points would come in.
That would give the guys who want to chase UCI points and qualify for Worlds some races here, but they're going to go to Europe. Or maybe they hang around and do some races and win some money. I'm trying to think about how we get more guys. I think that would give guys opportunities to make money and get some recognition.
I'll just talk from the men's perspective, the ability to put things together and take control of your own destiny, I think there's something to be said about showing people what's possible. If I had never gone to Europe, I don't think I would have seen the next level of progression. I would have just assumed I was good because I got this position at Nationals. For me, making it so I could go to Europe to race my bike was really eye-opening. It showed me I wasn't as far along in this sport as I thought I was. It motivated me to redouble my dedication to training and racing and wanting to pursue that idea of mastery.
If we only focus on supporting the top riders, and we only give opportunities to race World Cups to the same ten people, then all the guys around the middle are just going to go away because they're there for love of the sport or because there's a UCI race close by.
Last year I was working hard because I wanted a spot to race the World Cups in the U.S. One, because there was one in Fayetteville close to my home, but also because I wanted to race a domestic World Cup. I didn't have the results to be in the conversation, but I know there were guys who have been close to those spots but didn't have a chance because of the way the system is set up. It felt like the opportunities were going to the same few people and then maybe we'll sub in this rider for this particular World Cup.
If we were to open up the doors a little bit, I think there are some talented guys who need that kick in the ass. They need to see that it's not easy to show up with the best riders in the world and get your teeth kicked in. But maybe that will inspire them to work harder and then the next season, they can hit the next level and they enter that top tier.
I think a lot of times we focus too much on the front of the field. Those folks are very deserving, but in terms of World Cup opportunities, opportunities to race in Europe, that might inspire someone to come back and stick around the sport and not just go to gravel or leave the sport. You have to dangle the carrot out there every once in a while if you want people to stay interested.
Zach Schuster: One of my favorite stories my first year at Cyclocross Magazine was Tristan Cowie. He was kind of building toward Worlds with this amazing season in 2017 or whatever, and he qualified for the Worlds team. I think Worlds is one of the only ways I disagree with Bill on anything. But I think qualifying for Worlds was a major motivator that fostered competition among the 6th, 7th, 8th-best riders in both the Women and Men's fields.
It's a huge reward. You work for it, you sacrifice for it. If we want a healthy midfield, we need to be sending a full team to Worlds and have people doing the circuit and making that a goal. I think it's better for the health of our domestic season, and I feel like the way USAC is approaching it, misses something that is actually really important for domestic cyclocross.
Tyler Cloutier: It's been more of the same with the current regime. Oh we're going to open it up and have qualification criteria, but they only really are within reach of a few people.
Zach Schuster: We sent one male to Elite Worlds! How does that motivate people when it's so unattainable? Curtis is frankly on another level, so how does that motivate everyone 3rd through 7th? You're never going to qualify for Worlds.
Tyler Cloutier: You had guys who wanted to go last year who had the ability to make it happen.
For me, that was one of those pie-in-the-sky goals that I didn't share with many people. I wanted to race the World Championships because I knew it was such a far-reaching thing. But then I got into a couple of World Cups because I was in Europe. I remember the first trip to Europe, that was the year Tristan Cowie qualified. I was like, "That's a guy I have raced around," and I was like, if he can do it, I can do it.
Unfortunately for me, the next year was Denmark Worlds and they didn't fill the last spot. I was in the same position and if I compare apples to apples, Tristan was x in the UCI rankings, and I was x in the UCI rankings a year later. I was like, "I'm already going to the event. I'm paying my own way. You have any empty spot. You took a guy last year who I compare favorably to." But they said, "No, we're going for performance."
Did anyone finish on the lead lap?
Zach Schuster: I think Curtis might have. That was the Worlds I went to, so I remember interviewing him.
Tyler Cloutier: Was I expecting to perform? No. Would I have loved that opportunity to say I represented my country at a World Championships? I think that would have motivated me on another level.
Zach Schuster: You know what, fuck it, I'm all-in on this. I think it's really short-sighted what we're doing. I'm not saying USA Cycling should support people like you. If you want to pay and find a mechanic, we should send people like you.
I've gone to European Worlds once, but I talk to athletes every week. I think it's a huge motivation for people who make our scene run, and I think it's a mistake to get away from those opportunities.
Tyler Cloutier: If you're the Netherlands or Belgium or even the UK and blessed with talent because they have invested in the sport, they're in a position where they can say, "We have six riders who are all good enough to go to Worlds, but we're only going to take the top three." And those riders know it.
But the U.S. isn't in that position. We can't take three of our six spots because we're going for performance. What is performance? Is 21st performance? And I'm not taking shots at riders' results. But if the only time we're going to field a full team at home Worlds, then we're only going to have a full team once every ten years.
Riders need that carrot dangled in front of them. I came back from missing Worlds after doing some European World Cups, and I wanted to make a domestic World Cup. A little bit of me knew I was just a guy who is Europe who filled a spot that was available and got some UCI points. I was very privileged to have raced a lot of iconic courses, but I was still motivated because I wanted to win a spot on a domestic World Cup team. There were always guys who were slightly better, but it was still there, just out of reach.
Zach Schuster: This is pontificating more than I'm supposed to. Oops.
When I was at Cyclocross Magazine, we didn't have any money, so I only got to go to like one domestic race per season, but ironically enough, being a real job and hobby website with subscribers, I've been able to spend more time on the scene, and I've seen how much having a legit field from 1 to 20 matters. I've seen the motivation in so many athletes who are grinding with the goal of making Worlds, to discount how that creates a midfield is a bummer.
I guess I will forever be the champion of the middler on this issue.
Anyway, for full transparency, I didn't feel like renewing my Zoom subscription, so Tyler and I were supposed to talk for 40 minutes, but we've gone way, way over that. This was quite the impressive exit interview.
What are you going to be doing this year?
Tyler Cloutier: I've had people ask me, "Hey I thought you were done with bikes, why are you doing this racing?" I did not say I was done with bike racing.
Zach Schuster: You're just done with being a professional middler.
Tyler Cloutier: Exactly. I'm done chasing this dream. I've done it. My cup overfloweth with middler points and $40 checks for 20th.
I am still racing locally. I've done some local mountain bike races this summer. There are a few more local MTB races. There are some semi-local events in Oklahoma. A couple of Texas races. I'd love to try to help to build the scene here. I've been working with a youth program this past year trying to get those kids stoked on racing and teaching them some skills along the way.
I haven't decided if I want to give it a go at Baby Masters or if I'll wait. TBD if I'll be on the start line in Louisville. I guess I am 35+ now?
Zach Schuster: I don't think anyone is obligated to stay in the sport, but I think it's cool when folks stick around, especially when you love the sport. When I left Cyclocross Magazine, some people were asking if I would keep staying involved with media, and I was like, "What else am I going to do? What else am I going to do with my life?"
Tyler Cloutier: What else am I going to do for five months out of the year?
Zach Schuster: I think it's cool and I think it's good for the sport that people like you are like, "Okay, I'm not chasing the scene anymore, but I still love the sport and I want to give back."
Tyler Cloutier: If you invest in something for long enough, you feel like you have some responsibility for it. That sounds really egotistical to say, but at a certain level, I feel like I have some responsibility for seeing cyclocross in a good place. I think locally will be a big area of focus.
I definitely have other ideas in my head about how to make it better nationally. How do you create a product people want to come see and get behind, and it's not just having x number of UCI races. There have to be some cool ways to make the product of cyclocross spectator-friendly and something people can follow along with while supporting racers and bringing more funding into the sport.
Zach Schuster: Chief Marketing Officer Tyler Cloutier. Work on your resume.
Tyler Cloutier: Maybe I'll add that to LinkedIn and speak it into existence.
Zach Schuster: You can manifest it.
This was way more than I expected. I honestly thought we were going to talk for 20 minutes and crack some jokes. I think this is a good way to start the cyclocross season.
Two years ago, we started with the retirement of Courtenay McFadden, who was one of the great people in cyclocross during my time here. I remember when she told me she was calling it quits, I probably teared up a bit. I think you meet these great people and build good relationships, and I think saying goodbye to those folks is a good way to turn the page to a new season.
It's the end of an era. You were the head of the professional middlers.
Tyler Cloutier: I hope I can inspire some other professional middlers to keep grinding at it, but it's incredibly rewarding. Not for the $20 checks, but definitely for the relationships you build and the friendships you take from it.
Excellent interview 🙌